Rishi Sunak was 'calm' while Keir Starmer was 'anxious' during debate (2024)

Rishi Sunak showed 'calm, firm confidence' during last night's election debate, while Keir Starmer appeared 'anxious', a body language expert has revealed.

During the crunch ITV debate, which was watched by an average of five million viewers, the two political leaders traded blows on the economy and the NHS and frequently shouted over each other.

The live debate was the first opportunity voters were given to see the Conservative and Labour leaders battle it out ahead of the July 4 election.

Neither Mr Sunak nor Sir Keir appeared to land a knockout blow but asnap poll from YouGov suggested the PM performed marginally better, with 51 per cent making him the winner against 49 per cent for the Labour leader.

Body language expert Judi James also believes Mr Sunak came out on top, citing his confidence and relaxed nature over Mr Starmer's nervousness.

'In terms of leadership presence and debating style this was a complete and unexpected box-ticker for Sunak who managed to bounce back from his doorstep drenching in Downing Street to perform with the superior body language signals of calm, firm confidence,' she told Paddy Power.

'The differences in the states of the two men started to show from the start. Both men held the sides of their lecterns but Starmer let go to rub his hands nervously, licking his lips and then sucking them in to suggest raised levels of adrenalin.

'For his intro speech Starmer's eyes missed the cameras, although the sense of passion was there in his head batons and his chopping right hand.

'Sunak's eyes had found the camera even before it had reached him though and he aimed his gaze directly into out living rooms. His eyes crinkled into a warm eye-smile to suggest a relaxed mood while Starmer was tensely scribbling notes with his pen.'

The leaders clashed on a number of topics including immigration, with Mr Sunak arguing that Rwanda policy could help stop small boats.

When Sir Keir branded it an 'expensive gimmick' Mr Sunak shot back: 'You might not like it but I've got a plan.'

Sir Keir also taunted the Tory leader that he was the 'most liberal' PM because legal net immigration is running at record levels - with the latest figures 685,000 a year.

There were also groans from the audience as Mr Sunak was challenged over NHS waiting lists, and claimed they were 'coming down'. 'They are coming down from when they were higher,' he said.

Mr Sunak was targeted with more muttering from the crowd as he said the health service had been hit by 'industrial action'. 'So you're blaming someone else,' Sir Keir shot back.

Amid the two leaders clashing, Ms James believes that Mr Sunak appeared the most calm out of the pair.

She explained: 'The secret 'tell' of the two men's contrasting states of anxiety arousal came from their blink rate. Starmer's blink rate increased during the debate, especially when he was under attack from Sunak.

'At more than one point this eye-stutter became a complete closing of the eyes in a cut-off ritual as though retreating under attack. These eye-stutters made him look rattled.

'Sunak's blinking was almost non-existent, suggesting high levels of calm confidence.

'His eye expression was relaxed as, in fight terms, he managed to box Starmer into a corner several times verbally, pinning him down by repeatedly asking 'What will you do?' about several of the policies.

'Starmer's other key signal of inner anxiety was his greater use of verbal fillers. Under pressure we can tend to increase the use of 'Um' and 'Er' in our speech and that was evident in Starmer's replies, while Rishi managed to sound more clear, concise, and filler-free with his answers.'

Ms James also said that the Prime Minister came out on top by going on the attack against Sir Keir.

The Tory leader went after the leader of the opposition on defence and climate spending, although he received a round of mocking laughter from the crowd when defending his party's handling of the NHS.

She explained:'During moments when the two men clashed angrily it was Sunak keeping up the verbal pressure to get Starmer on the back foot. His plan appeared to be a role-reversal, with him sounding like an attacking opposition rather than the incumbent PM.

'Their gesticulation defined two very different leadership styles. Starmer's fist-punching and grinding gestures suggested a desire to fight and his precision gestures implied an eye for planning and detail.

'His hand-placed-over-the-chest gesture was used to show deep emotion as he spoke of his dad 'working in a factory', but then there was a puffed, splayed chest and a mocking smile to show aggressive arousal that looked like personal dislike when Sunak was speaking. At one point he even seemed to wince in frustration.'

Ms James also likened their techniques to former Labour PM Tony Blair and ex-US president Donald Trump.

She said: 'Both men used some interesting tribute act gestures though. Sunak displayed Blair's famous 'thumb of power' gesture where the fingers are curled into a fist and the thumb clamped on top to show authority.

'Starmer, though, copied a gestural ritual used by Donald Trump during his first campaign to get into the White House: he repeatedly held one and then both hands out with the fingers making an 'O' shape, followed by a co*cked thumb, which Trump used to imply that he knew what he was doing and that he would make everything OK.

'It was Starmer walking across to shake Sunak's hand at the end but this had been a bloody fight in many ways, with Stamer's clear signals of irritation, frustration and mockery as they locked horns.

'There was one telling moment when we saw a glance of anger from the otherwise calmer-looking PM and the presenter had her hands full trying to keep order throughout the debate.'

As Ms James analysed the body language of the two leaders,MailOnline has gone through last night's debate and found the key moments for the watching public.

Immigration

Rishi Sunak accused Sir Keir Starmer of not having a plan to deal with the small boats crisis in the English Channel, after repeatedly asking the Labour leader how he would act to stop it.

Defending the Tories' Rwanda scheme, which sees illegal migrants sent to the African country to have their asylum claims processed, Mr Sunak said: 'The flights will go in July but only if I'm your Prime Minister.

'If Keir Starmer was elected, all those people will be released, the flights will be cancelled and we will have no deterrent to stop the unfairness of people crossing in boats.

'So that's the choice for you at this election – stick to our plan and illegal migrants will be on those planes. With Labour, they will be out on our streets.'

He added that new laws have led to '1,000 criminals and people smugglers being arrested, serving hundreds of years in jail'.

Mr Sunak said: 'Because we do need to smash the gangs – Keir Starmer voted against those laws. So as ever, you say one thing here, but your track record says something completely different and you can't trust it.'

He also said he would be willing to leave the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) if 'forced to choose betweensecuring our borders and our country's security or a foreign court'.

Sir Keir pointed to record migration numbers and small boat crossings in recent years and said his experience 'smashing terrorist gangs' shows taking down people smugglers is possible.

He said: 'I will never accept that the only criminal gangs that cannot be taken down are these vile gangs – I've taken down terrorist gangs, I know it can be done.'

The Labour leader said that while he would not leave the ECHR, if allowed to do so 'in compliance with international law', he would support processing asylum seekers in other countries.

He claimed that Mr Sunak was 'the most liberal prime minister we have ever had on immigration'.

Taxes and pensions

Mr Sunak earned applause from the audience as he warned Brits that Sir Keir would 'raise your taxes and raid your pensions', accusing the Labour leader of plotting to hike the tax burden by £2,000-a-year.

He said that tax hikes under Labour governments was 'in their DNA' and said that only the Tories have a 'clear plan' to deal with the cost-of-living crisis.

Responding to a question from Paula from Huddersfield, who said she was struggling to survive financially, Mr Sunak said: 'I know how much of a strain the last few years have put on your family finances.

'My priority has been to come up with bold action like the furlough scheme and bringing inflation back to normal…

'Now wages are rising and we can start to cut taxes. We are only just starting to see the benefits.'

The Prime Minister accused Sir Keir of plotting a 'retirement tax' after announcing his own 'triple lock plus' plan which means retirees would never pay income tax on their pensions.

He said: 'It's very clear pensioners under Keir Starmer will pay tax on the state pension for the first time in our country's history.

'Keir Starmer can talk about the past all he wants but in the future pensioners have got a tax rise coming. Why do you want to do that, why do you want to tax pensioners?'

'Beyond raising your taxes and raiding your pensions, no one knows what he will do,' Mr Sunak said of his rival. 'I have a clear plan for a more secure future for you and your family.'

But Sir Keir branded the Prime Minister as 'the British expert of tax rises' and referenced Liz Truss's short-lived reign in No10.

He said: 'This government has lost control, it has crashed the economy... Rishi Sunak is putting Liz Truss forward at the next election.

'This is the Prime Minister who has been part of a government that has put up tax 26 times, the last manifesto said it wouldn't put up National Insurance and this man did put it up. Tax is at the highest level for 70 years.'

Sir Keir ruled out cuts to budgets that have not been ring fenced - such as defence spending - while Mr Sunak refused to do so.

He accused the Prime Minister of resorting to 'desperate gimmicks' before adding: 'The big problem with Liz Truss is that she made unfunded tax cuts.'

NHS

There was a rare burst of laughter from the audience - but not the sort Mr Sunak would have wanted - when he defended his record on the NHS.

When the topic came up, the Prime Minister insisted that that waiting lists were coming down as the National Health Service continues to recover from the Covid pandemic.

He said: 'It is going to take time to recover from that, but we are now making progress, the waiting lists are coming down.'

Sir Keir then interjected that waiting lists 'were 7.2million, they're now 7.5million', before joking 'this is the guy who says he's good at maths' sparking titters in the audience.

As Mr Sunak countered 'they were coming down from where they were higher' there was laughter from the crowd directed towards the Prime Minister.

The pair also clashed over the ongoing junior doctors' strikes, which have seen medics walk out of hospitals on multiple occasions amid a row over pay and working conditions.

The Prime Minister blamed this for increasing waiting lists and added he would not fold to the demands of unions as don't want to raise your taxes to pay for that – I don't think that's right'.

Accusing Mr Sunak of making it 'someone else's fault', Sir Keir said: 'You've got to get in the room, you've got to resolve it because the NHS has got to get back to work.'

But the Tory leader yet again accused Sir Keir of not knowing how to deal with the problem, adding:'How would you resolve it? Just standing there and saying you'd resolve it – that's not a plan.'

The pair also diverged on private healthcare, with Sir Keir saying he would not pay for treatment outside the NHS for a loved if they were stuck on a waiting list, while the Prime Minister said he would.

Social care

After the Lib Dems said they would introduce free personal carefor older or disabled people at home if they were in government, Mr Sunak and Sir Keir were asked if they had a fully-funded solution for social care.

The Prime Minister pledged to give an extra £8billion to social care and said his government had already put reforms in place as the 'pressures are immediate'.

Sir Keir said that Labour does have a fully-costed plan, but refused to elaborate on what it was, insisting it would be in the party's manifesto.

He said: 'We will have a plan for social care and, like everything else in our manifesto, it will be fully costed and fully funded.

'It starts with the workforce because, as you know, one of the biggest problems in social care is the workforce is fragmented, poor conditions and many, many people leave.'

Bringing the topic back to finances, Mr Sunak said that Labour's plans for taxes and pensions would leave a lack of funding available.

He said: 'There is no way to get Janet and everyone else the care they need without a workforce, but the British Medical Association has warned that Keir Starmer's pension tax risks an exodus of doctors from the NHS.'

When Sir Keir interjected saying 'we're talking about social care', the Prime Minister responded 'it's all joined up'.

National service

The Conservatives' controversial plans to introduce national service for 18-year-old's also came under the spotlight once again, with Sir Keir branded them a 'teenage Dads Army'.

The Labour leader said Mr Sunak was 'ashamed' of the Tories' record after 14 years in power and accused the Prime Minister of not being able to name a single achievement from their time in office.

He said: 'All he can do is say please look at the future, please don't look at what we've done the last 14 years. We cannot have five more years of this.'

When asked what he would do to help young people, he said: 'What I won't be doing is sending you on national service, some sort of 'teenage Dad's Army', which would be what the Prime Minister would say.'

The Prime Minister hit back, accusing Sir Keir of 'sneering' at the idea of a National Citizen Service, which he said would be 'transformational' for young people.

He told Sir Keir: 'All you can do is sneer at it because you don't have any ideas for the future.

'You don't have anything that is bold and that is going to transform our country for the better.'

However, there was some laughter in the audience as Mr Sunak insisted it would be 'transformational for young people in our country, giving them the skills and opportunity they need to succeed in life'.

Private school VAT

In another dig at Labour's tax plans, Mr Sunak said its proposals to make people pay VAT on private school feeds was an attack on aspiration.

The Prime Minister said: ' 'I don't agree with it: people who work hard should have that freedom. He is going to raise taxes. That's just that start.'

However, Sir Keir suggested the money raised would help fund struggling schools in the state sector.

The Labour leader said: 'I believe every child should have the teachers they need.

'For a child in a state secondary school who doesn't have a core teacher in maths they will live with that for the rest of their lives.'

He added that the country 'desperately needs more teachers' to help educate Britain's youth.

He said: 'On maths we have lessons taught by PE teachers not maths teachers. We will recruit thousands more.'

It came days after a private school where almost one in three pupils who have special needs blamed the Labour policy for 'forcing it to close' as parents would be unable to afford the fee hike.

Climate

The Prime Minister warned the audience that Labour's environmental plans would cost thousands of pounds per family.

Mr Sunak said that despite focusing on energy security and household bills, he would still meet the Net Zero targets which were part of the last Conservative manifesto by making 'bold decisions'.

He said: 'The contrast is clear at this election because Keir Starmer will reverse all the changes I've made. That is going to cost you all thousands of pounds.'

Sir Keir said Labour would make the most of the 'huge opportunity' that renewable energy would provide and insisted the country would feel the benefits.

'That means cheaper bills, renewables are cheaper not just in the short-term but in the long-term,' he said.

'It also gives us the next generation of jobs. Other countries have realised renewables is the future, they're in the race, I want us to win the race... The question I ask is, why not Britain?'

He added that analysis suggested Labour's plans would be cheaper than those put forward by the Conservatives, sparked an impassioned speech to the audience by Mr Sunak.

'Anyone can go online when they get home. Go and see how much it will cost to convert your home. Go and see how much it will cost to install the heat pump. Go and see how much it will cost to change your car.

'Those are all the things that he's going to force you to do sooner than is necessary. You can go and see tonight the thousands of pounds that it's going to cost you.'

Sir Keir muttered 'utter nonsense' as the Prime Minister continued: 'I've said it before, I'll say it again, he is going to put up your taxes, put up your bills, as clear as night follows day.'

Defence

Mr Sunak said Labour could not be trusted to keep Britain safe in an increasingly dangerous world, following Russian aggression in Ukraine and conflict in the Middle East.

The Prime Minister remarked that Labour had refused to match his plans to increase defence spending to 2.5 per cent by 2030, and referenced Angela Rayner's opposition to nuclear weapons.

'I don't think the Labour Party can be trusted to keep this country as safe as the Conservatives,' he said.

'The world is a more dangerous place than at any point since the end of the Cold War.

'The person who would be deputy prime minister does not believe in our nuclear deterrent, the ultimate guarantor of our security. You can trust the Conservatives with the security of our country.'

Sir Keir fell back onto his time as director of public prosecutions at the Crown Prosecution Service, which he said showed he had what it takes to keep Britain safe.

He said: 'For the Prime Minister, who was at the time making money betting against the country during the financial crisis, to now say national security is safer in his hands is insulting and it's childish.'

Earlier in the debate Mr Sunak had attacked Sir Keir's legal background including his time representing Abu Qatada - dubbed Osama Bin Laden's deputy - in his battle against deportation, as well as the now-proscribed Islamist terror group Hizb ut-Tahrir before it was banned.

The Prime Minister said: 'I'd rather have had my job than work for extremists like Abu Qatada and Hizb ut-Tahrir.'

Both men said they supported a ceasefire in Gaza and wanted Israel and Palestine to work towards a two-state solution after eight months of conflict in the region following Hamas's terrorist attacks and the subsequent invasion by the Israeli Defence Forces.

They also both said that they would continue the UK's special relationship with the United States if Donald Trump becomes president again later this year, with Mr Sunak saying: 'Having a strong relationship with our closest partner and ally in the United States is critical for keeping everyone in our country safe.'